one piece mast

  • sailorman
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27 Dec 2005 18:23 #18843 by sailorman
one piece mast was created by sailorman
Hi all just wonderin what the view is on the one piece masts. And would i be right in saying they will not be aloud in poole. will they be aloud in south africa.

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  • LevanteIRL67592
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04 Jan 2006 15:13 #11043 by LevanteIRL67592
Replied by LevanteIRL67592 on topic one piece mast
There is so much disagreement on the subject, as far as I know, nothing has yet been decided about SA, but it looks like they're not going to be allowed for Poole.

I don't think we'll have been able to agree on what to go with, then get it designed, tested and built in time for next January, and even if we do, very few people will want to change just before the worlds

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  • sailorman
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04 Jan 2006 19:01 #11056 by sailorman
Replied by sailorman on topic one piece mast
thought so . i wont be to keen in changing. thanks

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  • James Polston
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04 Jan 2006 19:36 #11066 by James Polston
Replied by James Polston on topic one piece mast
The good thing about the gaff it swirls rounf on different tacks where as with the one piece mast it won't.

Easier to rig though and me being 13 and my parents don't sail and going to the squads and stuff having to rig the boat myself with little help a one piece mast would help loads I might get one to see the difference though not sure depending if other people get it aswell.

James

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  • Simon Lovesey
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04 Jan 2006 19:50 #11068 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic one piece mast
The draft rules for the new rig are being refined by the International Technical committee and the various Technical Officers from around the world as we speak. It will then go to a formal vote of all the National Associations.

Remember the UK membership approved the concept at the 2004 AGM and then the actual rules at the 2005 AGM. At the 2005 International AGM the National Associations approved the concept and the need to upgrade the rig. So there is considerable consensus to allow an optional modern rig. The actual rules are likely to be voted on shortly. In terms of timings, it could be quicker than you think.

Based on the proposed rules, masts have already been designed and readily available, don't forget this is only an option :
<img src=" www.ukmirrorsailing.com/new-rig/superspars.jpg ">

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  • ogden
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05 Jan 2006 23:11 #11115 by ogden
Replied by ogden on topic one piece mast
....and what happens to the PY handicap rating for those of us sticking with the gaff rig. Does the new one piece sail out-perform the gaff set up?

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  • Simon Lovesey
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06 Jan 2006 09:56 #11116 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic one piece mast
We have conducted numerous test over the last two years, with a cross section of boats and sailors, conducted at a variety of venues and wind strengths. Some of the tests have been specific new rig v old rig trials, others have been sailors being giving dispensation to race with the new rig.

None of these have shown any obvious performance differential. Yes you could argue that these are not scientific tests, but they represent real life racing situations and because we have now done so many tests should be deemed representative. There are so many variables in sailing it is impossible to accurately test the specific performance gains/losses of individual items of equipment, even spending 00000s in a laboratory may not even come up with a true answer.

As an example of some of the tests :
Over the last few weeks I have been using a Superspars M9 rig on a new GRP boat at the Chichester Winter Series. This rig has a tapered top section and internal halyards. I have achieved the following results :

2,5,6,5,2

As a comparison the previous year in similar light winds I achieved the following results using a Gunter Rig:
6,7,7,4,2,3

I was 37th at the Worlds and ranked 18th in the UK, so a fairly typical racer. When lined up against other Mirrors, the boat feels no faster or slower than the traditional rigged Mirrors. At the end of the day the skill of the sailor is far more important.

The gaff rig has been refined over 40 years, the cut of the sails look dramatically different from the original Jeckells orange sails. The evidence is that out of the box the new rig will not be faster, but who knows how this may develop in the future.

With regards the PY handicap, this is issued by the RYA based on actual handicap race times. Over the years the speed of racing Mirrors has improved with developments in things like foils and sails, but we don't have separate PYs for different equipment options.

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  • SteveH
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06 Jan 2006 13:15 #11117 by SteveH
Replied by SteveH on topic one piece mast
Is the M9 a telegraph pole or will it bend? If the mast does bend, then surely there is a performance advantage as you can change the leech with the kicker and/or induce prebend to either power up or down depending on the wind conditions.

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  • Simon Lovesey
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06 Jan 2006 14:08 #11118 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic one piece mast
The M9 has a tapered top mast and certainly bends.

My sons tried it at the last Zone Squad, with winds gusting 25 knots they had no problems and the rig handled well. With under 13 stones in the boat they were one of only a few boats not to capsize. One benefit in the windy conditions was the sail set consistently throughout the day. With the lacing stretching/moving the sail shape of the gaff rigged boats deteriated as the day went on, causing those horrible creases you see on Mirrors.

I do not understand why there should be a performance advantage because the mast bends ?, the current rig certainly bends. Some sailors go to a lot of trouble to find a gaff that suits their weight, with the small crews going for a more bendy option.
<img src=" www.ukmirrorsailing.com/new-rig/m9-gaff.jpg ">

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  • James Polston
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06 Jan 2006 15:53 #11121 by James Polston
Replied by James Polston on topic one piece mast
Did you buy new sails for this, or did you keep the original sails with the little holes in for the rope that goes around the mast. Because I was going to buy new sails and wasn't sure what to get because I will probally buy the one piece mast and was thinking do I buy with hols or without because with hols I can use on both rigs where as without holes I can only use with once rig.

What do you think and what sails did you use with or without the holes?

James

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  • Simon Lovesey
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06 Jan 2006 16:05 #11124 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic one piece mast
The sails in the above picture are four year old Tridents, so have the lacing holes. We have also tried Norths, Q Mark and P+B, all with lacing holes.

So suggest you buy a main with lacing holes, the important thing is it has bolt rope the full length of the luff. Most do, but worth checking.

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  • James Polston
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06 Jan 2006 16:06 #11125 by James Polston
Replied by James Polston on topic one piece mast
What's bolt rope?

James

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  • James Polston
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06 Jan 2006 16:11 #11126 by James Polston
Replied by James Polston on topic one piece mast
Is the M9 the same mast as what the cadets use?

Cadet M9 - M9

It says this on the superspars wesite is their a different M9 or do we use the same as the Cadets?

James

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  • ecover
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06 Jan 2006 17:10 #11133 by ecover
Replied by ecover on topic one piece mast
yer what is bolt rope

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  • flyingpig
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06 Jan 2006 17:15 #11136 by flyingpig
Replied by flyingpig on topic one piece mast
I'm assuming they mean the chunky bit of rope seamed into the front edge of the sail that slides up the groove in the gaff. You'll need it the full length as with a one piece mast the groove will extend all the way down to the tack. Bolt rope in groove will replace lacing. As a needlewoman I think of it as "piping cord"!

pigs can....and do.....

Edited by - flyingpig on 06 January 2006 17:17:32

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