Mainsheets

  • Sinker
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01 Jan 2006 23:45 #11013 by Sinker
Replied by Sinker on topic Mainsheets
But on the other hand....

You could still be using a wooden mast,
or a gaff that does not fit against the mast
or the jib fairleads could be on the gunnel so you can't point when going upwind, or a sweep back rudder thats heavy with lots of weather helm, etc, etc, etc

Why not look forward in to what will make the Mirror attractive for new entrants to the class:
A classic boat with modern features, that makes the boat affordable, easy to use, & doesn't put people off.
Almost every junior boat now uses centre main, lets make it easy for people to come into the Mirror and not put up barriers.

Can anyone on this forum identify ANY Topper sailors who stopped sailing Toppers because of their new centre main arrangement? Or is it considered a successful evolution of a classic design, by the sailors, the RYA, and the media.


To make a centremain work in the Mirror the GNAV is a very logical solution to the problem of how to stop the crew from being chopped in two by the kicker or the main every time you tack or gybe.
As a large(ish) adult, who has spent more than a little time in the front of a Mirror, replacing the existing kicker arrangement would be a positive improvement to the sailability, with or without the centremain.

I don't want the Mirror to become a development class but remember what happened to the dinosaurs that didn't evolve, they died out!
These changes will not end the close tactical racing or the friendly people, or the mass of cheap entry boats. Use these strengths and build for the long term future of the Mirror class.

Sinker


First rant of 2006 and only 1 day in. Its going to be a great year.
Happy New Year to one and all.


Edited by - sinker on 01 January 2006 23:47:22

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  • lordjim
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02 Jan 2006 23:11 #11023 by lordjim
Replied by lordjim on topic Mainsheets
Lot of good points, but what is a GNAV?

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  • Sinker
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02 Jan 2006 23:33 #11024 by Sinker
Replied by Sinker on topic Mainsheets
The term GNAV is derived from the American terminology for the kicking strap: Vang

As it works by pressing down on the boom, and not pulling down, its also known as an upsidedown or backward vang hence the word 'GNAV'


Hopefully the Oxford English Dictionary will soon catch up!
Not that most of the users of this forum would understand what a dictionery is fore inn the abscence ov an spel chekker.

Sinker



Edited by - sinker on 02 January 2006 23:41:16

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  • Simon Lovesey
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03 Jan 2006 09:52 #11027 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic Mainsheets
Seems nothing is new, just received an email from Gavin in Sydney Australia with some details of his old Mirror he is restoring down under :

<i>"The Mirror was purchased from A. Blockey & Co (Under licence from Jack Holt & Barry Bucknell) in Victoria in 1970 by my father in law. It's rig has never been changed from the factory setup so it is fair to say that they have had a centre main at that time. Interestingly the "orange booklet - Mirror Class Dinghy - Sailing Instructions, has a few pictures of the boat. One has a centre main while the other has an aft main.

I also note the traveller setup is different. On 16034, the traveller has 2 fixed point rings with a stainless wire and pulley. There in no hole in the transom. I will send you some pictures once it is rigged in original spec.
"</i>


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  • agarland
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03 Jan 2006 12:58 #11028 by agarland
Replied by agarland on topic Mainsheets
Hi

This has nought to do with a centre mainsheet, but........I've just bought a boat that has a confusing (to me) spini set-up. However, it seems to be the same as on the photo at the start of this discussion thread. How does it work?

I've got a v. young/small crew who would need to cleat the spini sheet - there doesn't seem to be an inboard cleat to be able to do this, and the cleat on the gunwall seems to be in a rather awkward position to hold a sheet (I presume that these cleats are meant for the guy). Any advice on the pole launching system shown on the photo also appreciated!

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  • ecover
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03 Jan 2006 20:22 #11033 by ecover
Replied by ecover on topic Mainsheets
i say no centre main

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  • LevanteIRL67592
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04 Jan 2006 15:23 #11044 by LevanteIRL67592
Replied by LevanteIRL67592 on topic Mainsheets
I think the GNAV, centre main system should be allowed, but not be compulsary. I know myself, having learnt to sail with the aft mainsheet, how difficult it is to make the transition from aft to centre main, and that is one of the reasons people aren't moving into mirrors if they have serious ambitions. They don't want to have to learn a new tacking/gybing style that only applies to one or two classes.

I love the mirror the way it is, but I have no problems with letting in fibreglass boats with bermudan rigs and centre mains, even if I wouldn't use them myself. As long as they are regulated so they don't give a massive advantage, they will be good for the class

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  • ecover
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04 Jan 2006 18:20 #11051 by ecover
Replied by ecover on topic Mainsheets
what is a gnav

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  • Rupert
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04 Jan 2006 19:13 #11057 by Rupert
Replied by Rupert on topic Mainsheets
"Can anyone on this forum identify ANY Topper sailors who stopped sailing Toppers because of their new centre main arrangement?"

In a sense, I did. Not because I thought it would "ruin" the boat (and it seems to have coped) but because I thought it would change the dynamic of the class, with fewer and fewer adults racing and younger and younger kids. I think this is what has happened, though it might have happened anyway.
There are now very few adults racing the boat, whereas once there were many. Would the Mirror find the same problem? I would guess fewer adults race the class compared to 30 years ago, anyway?

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  • James Polston
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04 Jan 2006 19:33 #11061 by James Polston
Replied by James Polston on topic Mainsheets
Mainly kids sail mirrors anyway or with a chld crewing anyway a mirrors a little bit small for a man especially if teir racing siriously.

James

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  • ecover
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04 Jan 2006 19:35 #11064 by ecover
Replied by ecover on topic Mainsheets
my dad races mirrors

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  • ecover
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04 Jan 2006 19:36 #11065 by ecover
Replied by ecover on topic Mainsheets
well i suppose he is quite small

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  • Simon Lovesey
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04 Jan 2006 20:14 #11070 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic Mainsheets
In recent years there has been a massive growth of juniors sailing Mirrors, this is mainly down to the RYA selecting the class as one of its junior race training boats, recognising its strengths in this area. Also, there is far more choice for those looking for an entry level boat.

Nevertheless there is still a good number of adults racing, myself included, either with children crewing or single handed. We even see a few all adult teams. At the 2005 Nationals we saw real growth in the number of adults competing, this looks set to continue with more parents returning to Mirrors with their children. This is good for the class.

Personally I do not think the option of a centre main will change the dynamics of the class. Virtually all other classes allow centre mains, and teaching methods revolve around this configuration, so we are very much out on a limb.

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More
04 Jan 2006 22:25 #11076 by Trevor Lloyd
Replied by Trevor Lloyd on topic Mainsheets
There seems to have been a lot of comment on mainsheets since my initial question, great!
Anyway this GNAV has always been of interest to me but I cannot quite see how to use it on a mirror. The issue as I see it is that you would need to sleeve the GNAV on both sides with sailcloth otherwise on one tack the sail will be distorted around the tack? Perhaps someone can explain that one please or am I missing something?

Ta V M

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  • SteveH
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05 Jan 2006 12:45 #11079 by SteveH
Replied by SteveH on topic Mainsheets
I will be racing our mirror for the first part of next season and I'm 15+ stone (does help in a F6 though!!).

I like the idea of the centre main. The problem I have is that my boat has a centre main which you get used to and your feet move automatically. If you suddenly change as I do when I then go out with my 7 year old in the mirror, or single handed, my poor old brain can't get used to which way I'm supposed to be facing when I tack.

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