RS FEVA

  • atom
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03 Mar 2005 23:42 #18170 by atom
RS FEVA was created by atom
With the RYA announcing that the RS Feva and the Laser 4.7 are to be
added to the list of recognised junior classes, what is the future for the Mirror?
The RYA press release quotes 'The RS Feva has been recognised due to the boats popularity and the need to engage sailors through a modern dinghy. The class runs a comprehensive training programme and is highly attractive to young children.' The RYA could be signalling that the Mirror has had its day, especially as the numbers in the Zone squads are dropping away.
The RS Feva will be backed by a powerful builder, together with its strong class association to promote this 'Plastic' beast throughout the country.
I am a fan of the Mirror and all my family have and still do sail regularly within the RYA training system, so I hope this will continue.
What price now the decision at the Dinghy Show EGM?
What will be the association's response?

I urge all good Mirror sailors to promote the class as much as possible within your club, so that the next batch of prospective Olympians begin their career in a Mirror!

Nick Harvey ( A concerned Dad)

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  • Simon Lovesey
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04 Mar 2005 08:08 #8198 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic RS FEVA
Nick

Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention, MCA have been aware of this threat for some time and has been taking steps to strengthen the class. The new rig, which will lower costs and make the boat easier to rig is a good example, along with organising a comprehensive racing and training programme amongst many other activities.

BUT everyone in the class can help :

1) attend class training and enter class championships - we need to show healthy numbers at all events across the country, success breeds success. We are targeting 100 + boats at the Nationals, this would send out a very strong signal.

2) Encourage all our new junior sailors to apply for the Zone Squads this Autumn, these are great opportunities to get top training. There are lots of junior Mirror sailors racing at club level who need to be encouraged to apply. The Zone Squads are one of the key foundations for the class.

3) Participate in the organisation of the class, we need more help running the class, the workload needs to be shared and not left to a few key people. A strong, well organised class is one of the key criteria for selection as a junior class. PLEASE GET INVOLVED.

I plan to add this to the agenda for this Sunday’s EGM, we all need to work together to secure the future of the Mirror class




MCA Secretary

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  • Adam Meekings
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04 Mar 2005 13:10 #8201 by Adam Meekings
Replied by Adam Meekings on topic RS FEVA
so what is the future for symetric boats<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

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  • Pierre
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04 Mar 2005 19:24 #8205 by Pierre
Replied by Pierre on topic RS FEVA
The future for some symmetric boats is http://www.fastsail.org

But one thing you all have to realise is that the Mirror used to be a cheap boat when new.....alass this is no longer the case I'm afraid. A plastic Mirror is £ 1,400 more than a Feva XL. The answer is in the hands of the licensee.



Edited by - pierre on 04 March 2005 19:30:56

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  • Peter rhodes
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04 Mar 2005 21:44 #8207 by Peter rhodes
Replied by Peter rhodes on topic RS FEVA
how about derestricting builders to bring the cost down by competition

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04 Mar 2005 21:59 #8208 by Paul Hansen
Replied by Paul Hansen on topic RS FEVA
Whilst the 470 is an Olympic boat symetric boats will be supported by the RYA in my opinion.
The 420 is the immediate feeder class in turn fed by the Cadet and the Mirror. Although Topper and Optimist sailors move into the 420 the Mirror sailors do well in this class and some have moved further on into the OD (olympic development) squad this year.

Stu Bithel
Jonny McGovern
Ian Dobson
Lucy MacGreggor

We should make the maximum publicity of this fact.

Without the RYA path system the Fireball enjoys a strong and competetive fleet, so there is life left for symetric boats.

After all asymetric boats started out over 40 years ago, so they are not exactly a new invention of the last ten years.

Paul

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  • Peter rhodes
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05 Mar 2005 12:16 #8210 by Peter rhodes
Replied by Peter rhodes on topic RS FEVA
anyone noticed how the many new classes are copying those that have been around for years eg:
rs400=merlin-rocket
laser radial=europe
rs200=national12
topper taz=optimist
rs300=moth
topper topaz=mirror

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06 Mar 2005 00:35 #8213 by Paul Hansen
Replied by Paul Hansen on topic RS FEVA
Unsure some of your theories are correct Peter

The RS 200 would be nearer a Miracle as both use a spinnaker and require a similar crew weight.In fact the Miracle association were always debating the benefits of the Miracle against the 200 in the Halo magazine.

Both the British and International Moths are much shorter than the RS 300, on size the RS 300 is more like a contender.

Paul

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  • Houlihan
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06 Mar 2005 01:40 #8214 by Houlihan
Replied by Houlihan on topic RS FEVA
Had an interesting chat at the Dinghy show today with two mums who are looking to introduce their kids to sailing. The choice was what to get with a budget of £1000. Should it be an old wooden Mirror or a three year old, no maintenance Topaz?

What would you do if you had no ties to either class?

Houlie

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  • Adam Meekings
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06 Mar 2005 18:19 #8216 by Adam Meekings
Replied by Adam Meekings on topic RS FEVA
buy an old mirror. refurblish it yourself and with the spair money buy good sails etc

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  • Nick Brook
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17 Mar 2005 16:15 #8318 by Nick Brook
Replied by Nick Brook on topic RS FEVA
On the face of it Mirror sailors are right to be fearful of the RS Feva due to cost of new boats, but how many sailors new to the sport buy new boats? Whilst my family have been sailing more years than I care to remember when my children were younger I spent just £400 on a secondhand Mirror, as I didn't wish to spend any more whilst I was teaching them to sail. It was only when they became taken with the sport that I invested in better equipment to facilitate racing at open meetings. I'm lucky in that my club only allows fleet racing, you can't bring an RS Feva to Hollingworth, or a Cadet, Topper or Oppi for that matter. New members to the sport buy used boats, and cheap ones at that. So the Mirror has a strong future. The secondhand market in Fevas I suspect is limited as currently there are few boats available which forces parents to buy new, so the message that anybody involved with Mirror saling has to get out is that Mirrors are good value.....and do hold their price.

The asymetric argument goes further though, than what Peter argues. The RS400 he compares with the Merlin Rocket. According to the annual Y & Y survey no new RS400's were built last year, but 16 Merlins were! Asymetric sailors tend to be 'fad' sailors switching to the latest fashion quicker than you say Gucci! Where are the ISO's?, they went to Laser 4000's! where are the Laser 4000's? they moved to RS400's! where are the Laser 5000's? they went to RS800's Dinghy parks up and down the country are littered with abandoned asymetric boats which are full of water and unloved. The traditional boats in this country whilst having had there ups and downs are still strong where there are strong class associations, just look at the Solo Class, GP 14's, Enterprises and Fireballs. There is definently room in the UK sailing market for the Mirror, the recent surge in interst due to recognistion as a Junior Class has certainly helped...we need to find the old boats and find them new homes with people trying the sport for the first time.

Just thought i'd throw in my thoughts!

Nick Brook

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  • Mark533
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21 Mar 2005 09:28 #8351 by Mark533
Replied by Mark533 on topic RS FEVA
Surely there is more to life than "the path".....very few people have a realistic hope of joining the 5 ring circus and those that fail are often lost to the sport...The Fireballs have thrived since the lost out to the 470s and have survived the Asymetric onslaught well. Surely more is to be gained by presenting the class as a friendly family class that offers top quality racing for all

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21 Mar 2005 17:17 #8356 by Paul Hansen
Replied by Paul Hansen on topic RS FEVA
I quite agree that the RYA route is not the be all and end all, having said that it does help the class thrive, with new boat builds that are then handed down the line to people such as club racers. It is a fact though that most new boats are built for people on the RYA scheme, maybe not everyone can go to the olympics but the training given is excellent.

On the other point the Mirror is a friendly family orientated class, and we should make maximum value of this as well. Certainly there is no need to leave Mirrors at 15, I think Peter Gray buying a new boat should demonstrate this point well. Also look at adults sailing the class, introducing their children to the sport they are a great example and we may even have Ian Walker joining their ranks.

Paul

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  • abeach
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22 Mar 2005 08:21 #8363 by abeach
Replied by abeach on topic RS FEVA
I agree with the fact the "RYA route" is not the be all and end all, however you cannot argue with the facts ... the consistant annual attendance at our events has gone up a massive amount since the RYA National Junior Squad and Zone squads were formed. As have the number of new Mirrors built year on year.

Therefore in my eyes this has made the class more succesful. As with everything there is a downside, there is now a gap of sailors after the age of 15-16, we have no elder teens / early 20s sailing the boat at a high level like we did 6-10 years ago. However the class is thriving and the standard of the young sailors is much advanced on 6-10 years ago.

As said in different posts above the Mirror has many strengths, where the Feva has weaknesses, we need to play on these. Hopefully things will turn out well!

Alex

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  • Peter rhodes
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15 Jun 2005 16:18 #9160 by Peter rhodes
Replied by Peter rhodes on topic RS FEVA
I sent an email to the rs people asking why they are designing boats equivelent to existing ones there reply made quite amusing reading if someone can tell me how to paste stuff onto this forum thing I will do so otherwise contact me to tell you

daily mirror=gutter press
international mirror=gunter press

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