The new rig.

  • Peter Aitken
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20 Oct 2008 11:16 #20375 by Peter Aitken
The new rig. was created by Peter Aitken
Good to see most of you at the weekend
I have some very intresting conversation about Rigs and stuff with andy smith and tim rush. It was nice to have the time to talk rather than running around thinking coaching.
I do not want to share this with the rest of the world so I will send my findings/coments out by email.
It wont be rocket sience but it will open up a bit more speed.

National Coach

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  • rhaigh
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22 Oct 2008 22:15 #16280 by rhaigh
Replied by rhaigh on topic The new rig.
Who are the lucky ones to receive the information by email? Or is it by request, if so can I receive the mast rig information, please

crhaigh

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  • toddy
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24 Oct 2008 15:50 #16284 by toddy
Replied by toddy on topic The new rig.
Can I have the secret information as well, as it doesn't appear to be in your book

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  • craig bond
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24 Oct 2008 18:18 #16285 by craig bond
Replied by craig bond on topic The new rig.
Hi Peter
It would be good to hear your comments. The winning boat at the Europeans won with a home built mast (Tapered by Z Spars) and Advantage sails. I think sail makers and mast makers need to work closely together to make sure team GBR have the edge for the Worlds. A pre-bent mast with sails to suit is the way to go. (In my opinion) I am sure the Ozzies will turn up with something similar.
Peter lets all see your results (By email) so the squad can choose the best set up.

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  • Steve Long
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24 Oct 2008 18:40 #16286 by Steve Long
Replied by Steve Long on topic The new rig.
Hi all,

Not sure the Aussies know what they're doing Craig. I've had 4 emails from different AUS sailors asking me to make sails for them! Also if I would coach them at the venue prior to it starting!

From a personal point of view, I'm not sure about a pre-bent mast except in the lightest of winds. In anything but I believe it to be a disadvantage.

Steve Long

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  • craig bond
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24 Oct 2008 20:25 #16287 by craig bond
Replied by craig bond on topic The new rig.
Hi Steve
I think if you were sailing this year you may have won the odd cup, probably the windiest season ever!
Talking of doing the Worlds next year, any chance of you coming out of retirement??
Team Brightlingsea have had a cracking year, National and European Champions.........I think I may watch from the shore!
A discusion by email on the mast and sail choices would be good, 3 boats in the top 8 at the Europeans with pre bent masts must mean boat speed.......will be interested to hear Peter's view.
Hope to see you in Wales next year.

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24 Oct 2008 21:19 #16288 by Peter Robinson
Replied by Peter Robinson on topic The new rig.
Hi all,
Peter can the Yorkshire contingent and Lulham-Robinson be included on the email list?

All this talk of 'pre bend' masts takes me back to the antiquated metal spars used by the Merlin Rockets in the 1980s - gosh I am that old - its all plastic and carbon now!

Regretfully we were unable to make it to Shustoke but we are avid followers of fashion and would welcome any info, that you feel we may have missed out on, or which may contribute to future success

We hope we will be able to return the compliment and contribute positively to the rig debate in future - especially from the perspective of sub 70kg crews
Regards to all

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  • Sinker
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25 Oct 2008 16:10 #16289 by Sinker
Replied by Sinker on topic The new rig.
What prebent masts.......

Trust no-one plans to exceed the mast spar curvature limit of 30mm <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Remember RRS 78.1 ! Additionally if any competitor was to have knowingly altered their equipment in breach of the class rule, perhaps RRS 2 comes into play as well.



Edited by - sinker on 25 October 2008 17:16:34

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  • craig bond
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25 Oct 2008 17:32 #16290 by craig bond
Replied by craig bond on topic The new rig.
The masts are within the class rules, sorry we will keep our thoughts to ourselves next time, the discusion was to enable everyone to benifit!

Having checked the rules Jon Moore is quoting I think we need to put him straight.

The masts we use have between 15 and 25mm of mast curve, this is done by putting a weight on the middle of the spar and leaving it for a few days. The sail maker then cuts his sail to suit. This is all within class rules. Anyone can do this and as Steve Long has said it may not suit all.
The class does not need comments made by Jon which do not help the GBR team go forward. I am more than happy to pass on my thoughts to anyone which is the same as Peter was saying at the start of this discusion.
Lets make sure team GBR win the Worlds with helpfull comments!




Edited by - craig bond on 26 October 2008 06:46:30

Edited by - craig bond on 26 October 2008 06:51:38

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26 Oct 2008 10:17 #16291 by Peter Robinson
Replied by Peter Robinson on topic The new rig.
Cheers Craig,
That is really helpful.

My boys who are very light are using a second hand 'Custom Spar' that we bought off Trevor Lloyd. It is softer than most of the other spars around. The main has also been cut a bit flatter and this has produced some good boat speed in conditions in which one would not expect a 67kg pair to perform well.

We are making sure they both have 4 weetabix for breakfast everyday so that they come closer to the normal weight.

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  • phil rust
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26 Oct 2008 13:19 #16292 by phil rust
Replied by phil rust on topic The new rig.
Sorry to join in but it is hard to believe that Rule 2 gets mentioned when Craig is trying to help by sharing information.

If people want to quote rules perhaps we should start with rule 69 "...good manners or sportsmanship..."

To put things straight, clearly any gear must be compliant and the masts we have produced have been certified and then through at least 2 championship measurements. We have been very open about the masts we produced but I don't think equipment related boat speed tips are something for an open forum. Peter and others know exactly what we have done so the information has been shared .

P.S. Don't think it matters too much anyway. Good boat speed means some people sail in wrong direction faster. Christopher had no more boat speed at the Europeans than 2 years earleir but he and Ollie sail a lot better!

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  • Steve Long
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26 Oct 2008 18:33 #16293 by Steve Long
Replied by Steve Long on topic The new rig.
Hi Craig & all,

Don't think I'll be coming out of retirement for the Worlds, I'd need to lose about 4 stone! I remember spending the whole of 2002 in the gym and drinking nothing but slim-fast to achieve the 11 stone I was in Hobart! Never again!

Interesting debate on mast bends and sail cuts. When I was cutting sails, we took the mast bend deflection for average conditions, say 12-14 knots of wind and plotted the luff curve of the main to match this perfectly. Effectively, in light winds the luff curve was too much and in a gale, not enough. It is really arriving at a compromise for a Miror as mast bend control is not allowed.

I think for the lighter sailors a pre bent mast may be a good thing - in light winds the mast will match the sail better and as the wind rises the the mast will bend to the happy medium profile. Above this wind strength, the mast will be over bent for the sail but by then the lightweight sailors will be dumping power anyway. Ideally you want the mast to bend off sideways and backwards in gusts to release the leech of the main and then 'pull' the leech back again as the gust passes.

I remember in the ancient days of the gaff, I got Dave Gebhard to find me the stiffest one on earth for Hobart as it was supposed to be windy and we had the weight to cope. If heavier teams are sailing, I think I would stick with a standard 'straight' mast.

I would be interested to know where the pre bent masts have the forced deflection. If a tight line was held at top and bottom black band, how far down the line is the maximum deflection? I might even get my old luff curve templates out and think about things!

I'm pretty sure I will be at the Worlds cheering on every boat with GBR on the sail and then challenging the foreigners to drinking competitions every evening to ensure they have harrowing hang-overs the next day!

So - who's the favourite to lift the cup then?

Steve Long

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