Capsize

Anybody got any tips on recovering from a capsize? Got completely flattened yesterday for the first time since I started this sailing lark back in the autumn and learned a few interesting lessons....

a) I didn't have the strength to lift myself out of the water onto the dagger board, which surprised me - similar circumstances out of water I'd have managed a "climb" like that easily.

b) My 11 stone isn't enough leverage to pull a mirror back up, at least not by just hanging off the dagger board as opposed to standing on it.

c) Tieing the jib-sheets together when sailing single-handed makes life easier whilst upright, but becomes somewhat inconvenient once the elements (okay, the helm's clumsiness) have prevailed and the dingy is led on her side, slowly turning turtle!

In the end, whilst trying to turn her head to wind and throw a jib sheet back over to use to climb up, and trying to stop her turning turtle on top of me, the wind caught her and did the re-righting job for me. I hung on to the gunwale and managed to prevent her from tipping back the other way until she weather-cocked into wind and I climbed back in. Hardly text-book, but at the time I was just happy to be out the water <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I then tried to get her underway to let the auto-baler do it's work, but that proved to be a mistake. It was gusting F6 or 7 at the time, and with all that water sloshing around in the cockpit, in a few short moments I was swimming again!

Again, tried to right her by pulling her up, ended up abandoning that idea, turning her so the mast was pointing windward and letting the wind pull her up again, again clinging onto the gunwale in an attempt to stop her tipping the other way. First time, it didn't work and I pulled her back down on top of me. Second time we came back up and, marvelling at just how heavy one's body begins to feel at this point in proceedings and how high the sides of a mirror now seem when your eye-level is the waterline, I heaved myself back into the cockpit in a rather sodden, undignified heap.

This time, I let the sheets go and bailed by hand, during which time we slowly drifted into the lee shore in the shelter of the small cove in our small lake where I took a breather before getting my house back in order and tentetively beating/pinching back into the thick of it to reach the jetty.

All in all, something of a learning experience, though I'm not really sure what I've learnt yet, other than the benefits of being on a small lake, the difficulty of righting a capsized mirror on your own, and the limits of what I'm evidently able to keep a mirror upright in on my own!

Though now having survived the experience, it was very good fun.

Having done the same thing yesterday I can tell you it was difficult conditions.

I have done a few practice capsizes before and have never been able to pull myself onto the daggerboard, the boat lies too high in the water when on it's side. Normally I pull down on the jib sheet and push on the hull with my feet. Once righted I climb back on board over the transom using a rope loop that I have permanently fitted.

Yesterday the force of the wind wouldn't have let this work. When I capsized I did manage to go over the side and stand on the dagger board. She was turning turtle very quickly so I stepped about half way up the board when it snapped and left me dumped in the water. I then had to rescued. Fortunately like you I was on quite a small lake, but the wind was very strong - we had white horses.

The lesson I learned was that if the Laser sailors won't go out, then it's probably a bit too windy for a Mirror. Cost of lesson - broken dagger board and boom!

Try a few practices on a nice warm day - The water was freezing yesterday.


Andy J

When I sailed OKs, I had righting lines attached to the underside of the gunwhale, with a bit of shockcord on the the end that cleated on the transom so that they are held out of the way when you're sailing.

Maybe this could be a useful addition.

I think your mad - or something similar.

F 6-7 you need a self righting humber class lifeboat not a Mirror.

At Rutland Water yesterday they had these sorts of conditions, the Mirror NJS did not sail, the Olympic 470 squad did not sail and a few 29ers didn't either. The Club at Rutland stopped the safety boats launching. When driving home the car nearly left the motorway a few times due to gusts.

Because the Mirror floats so high when capsized compared to other boats it can be difficult to get onto the centre board at the best of times - this is where you need to be to get it up -, in strong winds the likelyhood of continually butterflying is very high and frightingly exhausting, big waves make it even more difficult.

The best recomendation in these conditions has to be don't sail - then you won't hurt yourself or wreck your boat.

However, on a brighter note, I expect you will find righting in less rigourous conditions rather easy after your experience yesterday.

Andy, sorry to hear about your daggerboard and boom. Seems I got away lightly then. Probably moreso than I deserved. Know exactly what you mean about white horses, was the same on our lake, or was by the point it knocked me down.

In my defence, when I arrived at the lake first thing in the morning, it was only F2 maybe gusting to F4 at worst. Eminently managable. It was the speed with which it deteriorated just after 11am that caught me out. Had there been breakers on the lake when I'd first arrived, there's no way I'd have gone out. Alone, at least, and in the absence of any rescue boat cover. Neither would I have necessarily risked it on a larger water.

I'll have to try a few intentional capsizes when we get lighter conditions and there's a rescue boat about. The water tempreture seemed quite alright when wrapped up a 5mm wetsuit, so that's not really a problem.

The bit that's got me is that I'm not sure how I'd have righted the boat without the wind to get under her and do it for me. I don't think she was going to shift without me on the daggerboard, and without somebody holding the daggerboard to stop her turtling, I can't see how I'd get around the other side to untied and throw a jib sheet over without pulling the boat down on top of me and making things worse.

On the other hand, with less wind we wouldn't have gone over in the first place ...

You should always right the boat into the wind, it works out easier in the long run! I've been driving rescue boats for 3 years and it's amazing the amount of times people right the boat away from the wind and have it capsize straight back on top of them.

The best advice is to just hold onto the centreboard and pull. It may feel like nothing is happening at first, but after the sails are out of the water the boat will actually come up relatively easily.

Then you have to pull yourself back in, I usually save up my energy for a few seconds, wait my moment, and make a lunge for the toe straps!

Finally, if at all possible, try to do a "dry capsize". If you're really sure that the boat is going to capsize, cut you losses and swing your legs over the gunwales onto the centreboard. You'll end up standing on the board ready to right the boat. Careful you don't go too soon though, in a regatta a few years back I hopped over the side only for the boat to recover and for me to be dragged along behind with one hand on the tiller extension and the other clinging on for dear life to the wash hole in the transom! My crew was never too comfortable sailing with me again!

One suggestion is that if you are sailing without safety boat cover, you fit some sort of mast head buoyancy. The Mirror is hard to get up anyway, but getting it up from turtled is a complete nightmare especially for a smaller crew (and being stuck under a turtled Mirror hull would be no fun either). The buoyancy gives you the "luxury" of some time to sort yourself out without a frantic dash for the centreboard to stop it going turtle. It slows you down a bit, but that doesn't matter if you're not racing, and it looks naff, but if you're a poseur, what are you doing in a Mirror anyway...?

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I think your mad - or something similar.

F 6-7 you need a self righting humber class lifeboat not a Mirror.


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Angus

F6-7 is 22 - 33 knots, I have sailed Mirrors single handed in conditions gusting 30 knots +, including getting the spinnaker up, so a Mirror can cope well with strong winds.

MCA Secretary

When capsized and the wind would be in your face if standing on the board the boat will typically 'Butterfly', so do what most single handers do. Hang on underside of the board so that when it flips you go under the boat and up the other side and arrive on the top of the board with the wind behind you, but don't let go. Stand up, lean back, step in. A bit disconcerting at first but it works, is quick and you don't end up tired. I do this in my contender a fair bit when its windy, and it works a treat in the mirror as well. The worst that can happen is the boat stays upright with you hanging on the board, just swim out and climb in.

We learned very early on that a standard ply daggerboard was not really strong enough for righting the boat, we also had trouble climbing back in as we didn't even have toe straps. So we now have a rescue rope. I have described this before on this forum but will do so again. It is a good chunky size - bigger than my mainsheet (maybe 15mm?)- tied looseley around the thwart on one side only (obviously) but it can slide across. It is long enough to reach to the stern, hang down over the transom and have a loop on the end which I can get my foot into to climb back in, aided by a knot further up which gives me something to grip and pull against.
In the event of a capsize... which in my case is always a turtle... I can reach under the gunwales on the side where the rope is fixed, pull it out and lob it over the hull just as you would expect to do with a jib sheet... except the weight of the rope plus loop means it is more likely to go where you really want it to in a strong wind. Swim round - perhaps hanging onto the painter for a few moments in passing to make the boat swing head to wind - then use that lovely loop and knot as a hand hold to pull yourself up. It took me some exhausting and embarassing practice to realise that I needed to stand right up on the hull, not just rest my feet on the gunwales, and pull the rope in order to right the hull. But it is much better than listening to ominous cracking sounds from the daggerboard. Then the rescue rope gets chucked over the stern and I can use it to clamber up those vast wooden walls until I am high enough to slither/bellyflop back in.
I used to always make a grab for the rescue rope when I felt the boat going over so I often got caught under the turtled hull and had to swim out. Since a particularly scary incident when I got my neck caught in a spinnaker guy and couldn't surface outside the hull, I have realised that I need to get myself clear first but I now know that I can reach back under the boat for my rescue rope, I don't need to grab it as I go over.
This is easily the chunkiest rope on my boat, but its weight is a godsend when you try to throw it, it is easier on your hands when you are getting very tired in the water, and most of the time it sits quietly out of the way under the thwart and doesn't tangle itself up the way thinner ropes would.

Re. deciding when not to go out - since my scary entrapment I've been quite wary. There are times at our club when certain of our Laser sailors won't go out... but there is one who on such occasions will come and crew for me and with his considerable ballast we may be the only boat which stays upright. F6 can be fun but it is also when you are most likely to break things. That's when you start wanting the rescue boat!


pigs might.....

One of the Irish boats at the worlds had this sorted.

They had fitted 25mm webbing along the outside of the hull, part velcro'd on to the hull just under the gunnel, taking it around the quarters along the transom to the rudder on both sides. Stopping each piece of webbing about 50mm from the rudder and then added a small rope loop to grab hold of.
At the front it was attached somewhere near the shrouds.

When capsized they pulled the webbing away from the boat starting at the transom and then used it as additional leverage to right the boat.
The crew: an adult and a small youngster, were able to right the boat easily when they capsized.

It looked a very clever and well thought thru' solution.

Mike capsized?! Oh dear!

<font face='Comic Sans MS'>I wanted to see what the sharks felt like close up !.......Tim Rush has all the lengths etc.</font id='Comic Sans MS'>

i am only nine stone but i can still right the boat in almost any wind so i do not think that this is a reason to not go out if you do not practice you will not get any better. so i think that you should just go out and get the practice in but you may find it helps to put a rope round the back so it helps you get back in afterwards.

pbenn

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>....if you do not practice you will not get any better. so i think that you should just go out and get the practice....<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Just to briefly resurrect an old topic, since my fraught capsize experience of the winter, rarely a day out on the boat across the summer so far hasn't ended without me tipping her over to practice getting her up again. I've actually got somewhat better at it, now being able to get up onto the daggerboard and step (well, lunge!) over into the cockpit as she comes up on about one in three attempts <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Introduced my two boys to the idea last Sunday (one eight, the other twelve). Definately one of our most fun weekends despite the copious absence of wind. I think we probably tipped the boat over a dozen or so times before they finally wore me out . . .