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Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S

  • Simon Lovesey
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29 Oct 2008 08:59 #20387 by Simon Lovesey
Informal Worlds Meeting Notes
Saturday 18th October 2008
Shustoke Sailing Club

Present:
Charlotte Bearcroft, Trevor Lloyd (TL), Peter Aitkin, Richard Elsdon, Rupert Yeoward (RY), Simon Lovesey, David Peterson, Alistair Watkins

RYA /Budget
Budget for event £100,000 of which £30,000 will be given to 'MCA Worlds Account ' (MCAWA) which has been opened by RY.
An initial £10,000, from UK Sport, is about to be put into this account.

Event director David Campbell James
Assistant Event Director Olivia Risk
RYA will deal with race management issues, juries, race officer, judge etc and provide ribs.
MCAWA will pay for safety.

Other expenditure:
Cost of Club
Rib launch £6/time in marina, free from Club jetty
Event safety officer
Course safety officer (make sure ther is safety cover around the fleet)
Mark layers x6
Beach officers
MCA can contribute on safety, beach master, and measurement.

Both RYA and Pwllheli may want to use this event to gain experience for 2012.

Racing format
The event will be open entry, with flights and 'Round Robin' races to ensure everyone races everyone else. This has been approved by IMCA

There was discussion about a final :
There will be a gold fleet contesting the main prizes
3 wild cards per country, plus qualifiers, in gold fleet
Aim for gold fleet of 60-80.
To determine gold fleet there will be 'more than 2 but less than 4 races (I think that means 3!) between flights at the beginning of the event.
The flights could be determined by the results at the Nationals and will be as evenly matched as possible.

Measurement
Ideally have Irish, Australian and UK measurers in tent/on measurement committee. Martin Egan/TL to contact them


Teams Prizes for club and area teams. Also possible grand master, grandparents, old boats

Flag of Country needed on mainsail.

Mirror Worlds could be combined with Junior World Championships to get a junior ranking. Under 16's using ISAF age.

Roles in Working Party
Class Liaison Simon Lovesey
Finance Rupert Yeoward
Safety Richard Elsdon
Measurement Martin Egan
Technical Trevor Lloyd
Accommodation Penny Brown
Entertainment Phil Rust







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  • craig bond
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29 Oct 2008 10:12 #16294 by craig bond
Replied by craig bond on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
Hi Simon
What if the Sailors do not do the Nationals, does this mean they won't be in the Gold fleet? Only asking as we can only do the Worlds due to other events.
Craig

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29 Oct 2008 12:10 #16295 by Martin Egan
Craig, I think it means which flight you are in is determined at the Nationals. If you miss the nationals I guess you will be allocated a flight. The 3 Flight races to determine the gold fleet is part of the event (on day 1 = Monday I guess)

Expenditure
Purchase of 600 - 700 jib numbers, some (4 ) event measurement stamps, ink pads and ink (stamps ink etc cost about £150 at Poole Euros, so allow a bit more £200 ?), hire of RYA load guage, materials for a bermuda mast measurement jig (say £20 ) and flags for mainsails need to go in the budget.

I'm a bit confused over why the proposal is now to have a gold fleet of 60 - 80 boats when restricting the fleet via qualification was rejected in Llandudno, and the event made open. Just seems a bit odd.

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  • craig bond
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29 Oct 2008 12:23 #16296 by craig bond
Replied by craig bond on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
I agree Martin, I think it should be an open event for all.
We will be there from the Saturday if you need a hand with the measuring.

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29 Oct 2008 12:32 #16298 by Martin Egan
Hi Craig, thanks for the offer, we will need all the help we can get.

I'm just wondering what the overseas teams think about this. I know flights of max 40 boats with max 2 flights (80 boats) per start was the proposal voted on by the IMCA when they went along with the UK proposal to make the event open. What was not mentioned was that there were only going to be 3 such races (maybe all on one day ?) and after that there would be a smaller selected gold and silver fleets.

If I had attended qualifiers, shipped my boat to SA or Oz, payed for flights and accommodation, I would not be best pleased if I ended up in the Silver fleet. I think it would make me think twice about coming especially If I was from one weaker Mirror Nations.

Edited by - MartinEgan on 29 October 2008 13:13:53

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  • Simon Lovesey
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29 Oct 2008 20:52 #16300 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
I tend to agree with Martins and Craig comments that things should be as open as possible but there seems to be support to have an actual final after a period of qualifying. This is being investigated at the moment with the RYA, qualifying would be during the Worlds

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  • Pudney
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30 Oct 2008 15:07 #16301 by Pudney
I am frankly very surprised with this talk of Gold and Silver Fleets - however they are chosen. We had an extensive debate at our first Worlds Meeting in Llandidno? and firmly came to the decision to opt for the four flight formula as proposed in Simons note.
This proposal was then voted on by the IMCA and approved. I can't see how we can go back on this decision at this time. If not followed through to the letter, I am certain it will affect entries here and abroad. I believe Simon you also informed the host club and the RYA before the vote was taken??
Certainly, at the ISAF conference I am/was planning to encourage new entries to the Worlds, on the basis that it is a truly open worlds with no gold and silver fleets etc. Cheers jpp [I had heard that the oppies had a similar approach but have not checked.]<font size=4></font id=size4>

jeremy p pudney

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  • Simon Lovesey
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30 Oct 2008 16:54 #16302 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
Jeremy is correct, thanks. Highlights the danger of informal meetings after a hard days sailing !!!!

Also highlights the need to minimise the debate at this stage and focus energies on implementation

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  • Richard Elsdon
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31 Oct 2008 09:47 #16303 by Richard Elsdon
Replied by Richard Elsdon on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
Pete,
When we met at Shustoke you suggested that there might be an RYA checklist/guide to organising big events. It would be great to have a copy so that we dont miss anything from our side.

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  • Peter Aitken
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31 Oct 2008 09:54 #16304 by Peter Aitken
Replied by Peter Aitken on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
Will some one please tell me the format the racing is going
to be.
I think in ALL major classes Opi Laser etc they all do flights that end in a final. If you do not have a final then there is a grate probalility that the winner and second place boat may not sail againts each outher on the last day in the last race.
We were only talking about it because of start line size.
The more boats you have on he start line the longer the first beat.

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  • Simon Lovesey
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31 Oct 2008 10:30 #16305 by Simon Lovesey
Replied by Simon Lovesey on topic Notes from meeting at Midlands Champs, Shustoke S
The Optimists ran a continous round robin series at their Nationals, with 12 races and 24 starts of 73 boats

www.sailracer.co.uk/results_repo ... =376569906

There was NO final, the flights were just rotated

DCJ at the RYA is working on all this and has considerable experience in this area

The priority at this stage is maximising entry numbers, ultimatly this will determine the format of the racing

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31 Oct 2008 19:26 #16307 by Trevor Lloyd
Are these notes meant to be on the restricted site?

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